Accepted SkyWars Healer Kit Nerf

[Rugratboy]

Minecraft Username:

Rugratboy​

What is your suggestion's title?

Healer Kit Nerf​

Suggestion Details:

As of now Healer Kit in Skywars is insanely powerful. This is something that everyone knows by now, but how powerful is it truly? There is also a Tl;dr at the end for anyone who doesn't want to read an entire essay.

Well. I went and did some math, and this is what I found.
According to the minecraft wiki, a regen 2 potion will heal 1 hp (half a heart) for every 1.2 seconds. A regen 2 potion lasts for 30 seconds each.
Now in of itself thats powerful, but on its own does it need a nerf? Well to me yes. It actually heals roughly 25 health, or a full row of hearts, and then some. However, in extreme mode gear is so powerful that if someone had a full set of prot 2 diamond armor, against a sharpness 2 sword, they take roughly 1 - 1.5 hearts of damage, which is then sometimes healed by 0.5 by the next hit. Or in roughly every 2 hits.

So for an entire fight, unless running of any form is involved, they will now, effectively anyways, take less damage. And after the fight, even if that potion finally runs out and they are low on health, they also have instant health potions to just completely negate the bad side of taking a fight.

Now what about other potions? I mean, there is potions from mid right? while those do exist, they don't last nearly as long, and they rarely stack, causing you to only have one potion, maybe 2 on standby in one slot, that lasts 8 seconds or so per potion.

See, with the healer kit all 3 potions, for both instant healing and regen, should stack (based on what ive seen on other kits, and yes I don't have it unlocked personally, so this is slightly biased) meaning that in one slot, you have 90 seconds of regen 2, or 75 hp, which would equal to be 3.75 rows of health before instant health potions. While in most cases someone going to mid will maybe get 4 regen potions ( that last 8 seconds each for what I recall, so in total it would be 32 seconds of healing) and a few gapples if lucky, and on the unlucky scale will get almost nothing of healing. Making a fight against a healer impossible, not including knockback existing for fights. This is also assuming that the fight between the two people are equal in skill, and not including varying gear (outside of healing)

Overall healer kit is so strong that one potion can out beat several potions from mid, and while a kit should have some strength, the fact that it's so powerful that you either use healer kit if going for trophies, or a ranked kit is good enough for outside of trophies, and that's realistically your only choices? is insane. (baring in mind ranked kits are mostly good for other modes outside of extreme)

Now for the nerf I believe healer kit should still have a lot of usage, however to me the regen potions should last maybe ~10 seconds each, it's guaranteed healing, while still being slightly better than mid, but not so powerful that it overshadows mids potions and should still have the player require them, and this would still provide roughly 4 hearts of healing per potion. Plus you would still have access to the healing potions as well, so it would mostly nerf down the regeneration.

However, take this suggested nerf with a grain of salt, as again, I have never used healer kit personally, I have just fought against healer kit. Another thing to bare in mind is most of the experience I have against healer kit is in extreme mode. There is the possibility that it's more reasonable in things such as normal mode, where you end up dying quicker, and the regen doesn't have as much of an affect on the battle. However I'm not 100% sure about that.

Tl;dr
Each regen 2 potion lasts 30 seconds according to kit information, which each potion would equal to about a row and 2.5 hearts.
Because regen 2 heals at a rate of 1 hp per 1.2 seconds, you can end up getting back 0.5 hp per hit - 2 hits you take, and in extreme mode its a huge advantage.
Healer kit is so powerful that for every forum post I have seen the recommendation is to use healer kit, and I have very rarely seen any other kit suggested. And the only time I have is using a ranked kit in normal mode.
Suggested nerf would be to reduce down each potion to 10 seconds. As it would still be stronger then mids regen potions, however still not long enough to completely change a course of a fight, and still require middle for potions to at least some degree.

And as a final thing. Im not sure if this has already been suggested, There is no search function anywhere that I have seen for the suggestion or normal forums. Meaning, unless I search through every single page, I can't really know. And this is not including the archived suggestions as well, which would probably take over an hour just to check.​

How could this idea help improve JartexNetwork?

Healer kit is so powerful you basically have to use it. This nerf would allow new players to have more of a fighting chance against these players with healer kit. It would also promote more usage outside of healer kit, and hopefully help players feel less annoyed when opening their 50th brain spin to have yet obtained a healer kit.

So in theory, it should help to let newer players stay on the server longer, hopefully feeling less frustration.
Promote more creativity with other kits (potentially)
And, should help everyone who doesn't already have healer kit, to feel a little less annoyed to not have it yet, even after a lot of spins. Unlikely occurrence to not get it in a short time, but it's a possibility that has happened.​

Extra Information:

Once again, I am sorry if this has already been suggested. I just can't do any search function anywhere to be able to tell.​

 

[DeathGunRaids]

I have seen players who were able to beat healer kit users due to them having excellent knowledge of buhc (ability to use rod, water, bow, lava etc, all done effectively).

 

[DeathGunRaids]

Honestly cannot believe one would waste their time to go in-depth on how healer kit is a good kit. Lmao

 

[Rugratboy]

I have seen players who were able to beat healer kit users due to them having excellent knowledge of buhc (ability to use rod, water, bow, lava etc, all done effectively).

Again. People who are equal in skill, someone using healer kit will win the fight. Look if people wanna have a 25 hp per potion thats fine, but can we at least have other kits that are viable? Tl;dr at the end, as this was way more ranty then i intended.

People are just saying "get gud" but thats not balancing.
People saying that there is alternatives to something is fine, but its just better then any other kits items. One kit has a pearl which could argueably be really powerful, but thats if you risk going straight to middle with not opening any of your chests.
Im saying to balance a kit. Is that really that bad?
Healer has almost no risk to picking it, it gives better potions then anywhere in middle and better healing then what any chest can give (except ambrosia) and somehow that doesn't need to be changed at all?
Almost every kit in the game, at least in extreme mode, gives worse gear or items than what middle can provide. Healer is one of the few kits in the game that universally is always good. Especially sense ranked kits arnt allowed for trophies.


Also the fact that you need to learn how to use lava and water effectively just for healer as "ive seen people who were able to beat healer due to having excellent knowledge of buhc" but what about every other kit in the game? do you need buhc just for them to? ya skill beats a kit.

(TLDR HERE AND BELOW)


Overall the point is that healer is so strong that it makes playing as any other kit pointless. The only other two that can be argued as being good? is rusher and berserker. Which 5 seconds of strength is a decent amount, but if the other person sees it it makes that strength wasted. And rusher is risky as you go to middle with basically nothing. However salmon can unironically be also considered decent as it can give prot 2 boots, which outside of extreme mode? can actually be pretty decent. But in extreme? its not that good.
Another question I have for you. Is do you use healer kit? If so 1. How often do you use it? 2. How many times do you win with it compared to any other kit? Does it provide an actual difference?
Also a slight final note. Just because something is common, doesn't mean everyone gets it at a reasonable time. For it being common I have not gotten it after 120 wins, 603 kills, which just from kills alone at a 25% chance means I would have spun ~15 times. Let alone the missions, the votes, and dailys I have done. Its not a fantastic amount by all means, but at a 30 minute wait time at worst? thats roughly 7.5 hours worth of waiting inbetween spins. Unless you already like the server, the chances of you having it are slim. Meaning that most new players just kinda have to suffer that fight.

Healer kit has basically no disadvantage to using it, while kits like rusher and berserker do have some form of disadvantage to be used viably.
Even though healer kit is common it still can take a long time before someone actually gets it.
Having the argument of skill beats a kit makes no sense. Thats just saying get gud. Balancing is meant for the high end play, while still making it a fairer fight for everyone below even if it doesn't always make the difference. If two people have the same skill, should 1 win because they have a better kit? thats what my entire argument was based on. That they were on the same skill level.
Healer is the only kit im aware of that for every mode it gives a better item then what is physically possible to obtain, which the exception of ambrosia.

and the reason I spent the time? I was mostly bored. Thats honestly the main reason im arguing so heavily is just being bored, im still serious in thinking healer needs a nerf, or at the least kits need to be buffed.

 

[DeathGunRaids]

Hey, you would never find players who are equal in skill! There’s always a factor that would separate both. I can’t be bothered that a level 21 player is complaining about healer kit being too good.

 

[Rugratboy]

Hey, you would never find people who are equal in skill! There’s always a factor that would separate both.

That goes for any game. But there are people who are extremely similar, and at the highest ends of gaming for any game that exists, everyone is extremely similar. CSGO has people who can aim and kill within what looks to be an instant. Super smash brothers has people making combos constantly. So why wouldn't we balance this but those get balances?
Imagine if in super smash brothers there was a character that was just blatantly more powerful then every other character. But then someone went, "but if you just know how to combo them!" would that be a valid argument?
Imagine if in CSGO you just chose what gun to spawn in with, and one of them was a one shot kill gun, while the rest just 2 or 3 shot. "but if you just aim and shoot faster!" would that be a valid argument? Or what if someone could spawn in with a slightly powerful gun, while someone can spawn in with 3 full heals to use whenever they want with the only problem having to be to wait for a little while? in a safe spot. Like what most of csgo is.
Because your argument was "but what if you just use your resources better that you may or may not get?" You may or may not get a rod. You may or may not get lava, you may or may not get water. But this guy over here guaranteed has 3.75 rows of health worth of healing, while you might have prot 2 boots with depth strider with 3 water buckets as your guaranteed items.

 

[Rugratboy]

I have seen players who were able to beat healer kit users due to them having excellent knowledge of buhc (ability to use rod, water, bow, lava etc, all done effectively).

Also, ( and sorry for spam posting) your point of buhc doesn't matter if the healer also knows buhc well. What if they just avoid the lava? if they get rodded what if they back up so they don't get hit by the sword? what if they start using lava and rodding?

 

[DeathGunRaids]

Did you lose to a player with healer kit that has the same “skill set” as you?

 

[Rugratboy]

Did you lose to a player with healer kit that has the same “skill set” as you?

To answer this question I have lost twice. Based on memory, we were both trading up until the point I had to start healing, after using up whatever potions I happened to find, which I believe was less then the total amount of regen from one of their potions (just to give an idea on the amount.) baring in mind that i had mid refill, though I think at least one or two chests were destroyed. I had to start using gaps, which is a major problem. As you can very easily be put into a bad spot, and even if you do manage to get one off, its significantly less healing, then that of a healer regen potion.
Neither of us were using lava or water, both of us were using rods and snowballs or whatever we had in our arsenal for the equivalent of a rod. Maybe there was some specific skill in there such as w tapping or block hitting that one or both of us weren't doing as well as it could have, but in terms of general knowledge of playing the game, and specifically in the two encounters, they had won both times by a drastic margin of health.
Im not saying a perfect trade had happened, but it was a close trade up until I had to use gaps.

 

[DeathGunRaids]

To answer this question I have lost twice. Based on memory, we were both trading up until the point I had to start healing, after using up whatever potions I happened to find, which I believe was less then the total amount of regen from one of their potions (just to give an idea on the amount.) baring in mind that i had mid refill, though I think at least one or two chests were destroyed. I had to start using gaps, which is a major problem. As you can very easily be put into a bad spot, and even if you do manage to get one off, its significantly less healing, then that of a healer regen potion.
Neither of us were using lava or water, both of us were using rods and snowballs or whatever we had in our arsenal for the equivalent of a rod. Maybe there was some specific skill in there such as w tapping or block hitting that one or both of us weren't doing as well as it could have, but in terms of general knowledge of playing the game, and specifically in the two encounters, they had won both times by a drastic margin of health.
Im not saying a perfect trade had happened, but it was a close trade up until I had to use gaps.

If you lost to a player that had your “skill set” who had healer kit, then you’d lose to a highly skilled player with healer kit (and I’d bet they won’t even use it, as they’d just chug gaps). Why am I saying this? Because you mentioned your w/L ratio.

 

[Rugratboy]

If you lost to a player that had your “skill set” who had healer kit, then you’d lose to highly skilled player with healer kit. Why am I saying this? Because you mentioned your w/L ratio.

You would lose to anyone whos highly skilled with any kit. Im not arguing that point. Im arguing that on a similar skill level of each other that healer kit has a massive advantage.
once again your argument is based on "if you or they are highly skilled, kit doesn't matter" but that's not the point. Are you expecting every single fight between every single player to just be some sort of quick drop event?
I mentioned my w/L ratio for the main reason to say im not awful, and as a further proof that it wasn't between two completely random players who both have a tendency to fall off on their own or win by luck alone. I cant really make an entire video just to showcase exactly what I know, just to argue a balancing thing of a kit. Especially since the main argument is the fact that with healer kit you start with insane amounts of healing, while every other kit is kinda "meh" on the gear.
If two people know very similarly on how to play the game, both knowing lava, water strats, rodding, at what point do they "just need to be better" before balancing actually matters?